Dating is like baking – don’t leave the ingredients together in the oven for too little or too much time.
OK, don’t think about the analogy too much, I just had to throw it in, in the spirit of comparisons.
I once observed something very bizarre, and a bit sad. A maidel of 21 years was about to embark upon her first date ever. A typical Touro student from out of town, she spends her sleeping hours in the attic of a Flatbush couple who are milking the fact that single ultra-orthodox women need to live in NYC and attend Touro if they want to have a prayer of getting married. In fact, there was more than one in that attic, which is why I was able to observe this, while lounging about with a good friend.
Maidel left on her date at about 7 pm and was back at around a quarter to 10, very disappointed.
“Two and a half hours,” I noted. “That’s very decent for a first date.”
“It is?” Maidel replied skeptically, still looking very glum.
“Why, it didn’t go well?”
“No,” she said.
I later found out that she told her landlady (or whatever you call these people) that she was expecting to be back at around 12.
Twelve o’ clock? What is she, nuts? Counting on my fingers – and correct me if I missed a digit – that would make her first date five (repeat that: five [5]) hours long. Allow me to repeat: is she nuts? Knowing what I know about Maidel, I suspect she was also expecting to be smitten at first sight when dating her true love, and when faced with the usual awkwardness that is a first date, figured it was a DOA.
First dates are awkward. Not as a rule, but in general, because you’re trying to interview a person without seeming to. Until you find a point of common interest, it feels as ridiculous as it is, but is somehow too solemn to laugh at. Therefore, there’s no reason to spend more time on them than you need to. When things begin to feel as stretched as a rubber band holding a medical student’s flashcards, end it. You can make up anything you missed on the second date, if necessary.
I once had a guy apologize for doing that. We finished our dinner, walked around the block, and were barely treading conversation as it was, so he drove me home. As he pulled up in front of my house his eyes fell on the clock, and he realized that it had only been 1 hour and 45 minutes. “Is that OK?” he asked anxiously.
“What?” I was bewildered.
“It’s only an hour and a three quarters. First dates are supposed to be two hours long.”
“I really didn’t notice,” I said. It might have been the wrong thing to say; he probably took it to mean that the date felt a lot longer than that (which was the case anyway). But c’mon – dating by the clock? Do what feels natural. If the date feels over, don’t hang on just because your mommy told you there’s a minimum time-frame. There’s no “leave in the oven at 350 for 45 minutes” recipe. If you end a great date early because the rule is 2 hours, you’re no better off than if you drag out a bad date because the rule is 2 hours. When the toothpick comes out clean, take it out of the oven. Which is to say, when it feels natural to say goodbye, say it.
Bye.
agree, agree, agree
i hate long first dates… even with the most entertaining guy, its hard to talk to a person you just met for 5 hours!
I wish my first dates could all be narrowed down to two hours..
I am often stuck on these long 5 hour dates the first time around ..
it is so unnecessary.
am I weird for being able to carry on a conversation with someone I just met (I don’t talk that much to most people though) for 2, 3, 4 or even 5 hours if we get along at all? (and apperantly, although I wouldn’t no it, say they enjoyed it?)
… this makes me confused.
I had a friend from ‘out of town’* who came in for a date with a girl from Brooklyn. The date was going quite well taking more than 3 hours of decent conversation. My friend is thinking – odds look good for a second date but she starts talking about wedding dates meeting families etc. My friend asks her what are you talking about so quickly? She replies ‘well a date is 1 hour, and we have been out for 3 hours which means three date which means that you should start talking about marriage’. My friend was no longer interested in a second date.
*I am from New Jersey so by many definitions I am from ‘out of town’ too, but my friend is further out of town – out of the Tri-state area completely!
Totally agree, Bad4.
Aharon, that girl sounds a little off her rocker. I don’t blame your friend for not being interested in a second date.
Totally agree – especially where it’s one of those where you know it’s got no shot.
Plus, on a weeknight, people have school and work – not fair to take someone out for 5 hours if they have an early class the next day.
And then some people just don’t bring their A-game on a first date – they’re tired, whatever. In which case, keep it short, and if it’s worth a shot, go out again.
Great post. Lemme give you the guy’s point of view.
If a date is too short, then it seems like the guy’s not interested. But plenty of times, he is. So if the dinner went faster than normal, and the the girl declined an offer of desert, then you kinda have to leave the restaurant. Now what? If you really don’t have any further plans, then going home becomes the default option, and you’ve just had a 2 hour date. Nothing wrong with that of course, but girls will often intrepret that as lack if interest.
Here’s a tip, ladies. If the guy ask if you’re interested in dessert, odds are that means he’s enjoying the date and wants it to continue. Even if you’re watching your waistline, if you like the guy, just order a cup of coffee or tea! Then you can sit and shmooze further, and you won’t have to feel upset because your date wasn’t long enough.
Also, the 5 hour first date is much more common when you first start dating. But pretty soon, it’s not that fun anymore. Plus, remember ladies, the guy’s gotta drive home afterwards, and not every guy lives in Brooklyn.
Oh sheesh, just what do people talk about on the first phone call if the date and what you are doing and how long that might last is a surprise. He: I’d like to take you out to dinner on Wednesday. Would 8:00 be okay to pick you up? She: Dinner sounds lovely. I do have an early class Thursday morning. Would 7:00 work for you? I’d like us to have a chance to have a leisurely dinner. He: Sounds fine. See you then. The parameters are set and no one has to worry about punching a time card.
By the reckoning I’m hearing here my husband and I should have been choson and kallah before the end of our first date. He picked me up at 11:00 AM and brought me home at 12:30–13-1/2 hours later. We went to lunch, we walked and talked, we went to a theater production, we walked and talked, we got hungry, he said do you want to get some dinner, we ate. And neither one of us was hearing wedding bells or making plans with a caterer. It was just a nice date, the conversation flowed and we went with it. Wasn’t all that unusual then.
One more reason to be thankful I was dating then and not now.
Yes Yoni, you’re weird.
I was a huge fan of the short first date when I first started dating. Of course, it helped that I went out with guys that made me count the seconds until the date was over. But people told me 2 hours was normal – even better – for a first date, so no one feels too awkward for too long. I went out with a guy for an hour and half, and it felt like 10 years. But my first date with my husband was a little over 5 hours, maybe even closer to 6, and it felt like one. While that’s not normal, hey: you never know.
I know that I used to think there were rules and time frames and whatever. But the more I see it, I think that it depends on the person. Some people have no problem sitting and talking for four hours, and others get squirmy after an hour a half. Take it how it goes- (I agree with lawyer..)and usually, if the guy offers to go somewhere else like take a walk, or have a dessert or something, it means he is interested.
Also: most first dates are in lounges. So how long can the two of you sit in a dark lounge with twenty other couples, sipping your soda and interviewing each other? In those cases, two hours is plenty.
First date = one hour.
Sometimes a date can be too short and you have to wonder. When my daughter was dating, she once had about nine 2-3 hour dates. That was not a good sign. A very smart Rebbetzin told me that there must be at least 2 or three loooong dates of at least eight hours. Why? That way you could see the person in different lights, when he’s hungry, bored ,frustrated etc. You can’t tell much from a few hours. I always tell my kids that unless there is something glaringly wrong and you know for sure that the boy or girl is not for you, you should go on a second date. Everyone deserves a second date to make a great first impression. People can be very nervous on a first date and don’t let their true selves come out. Some dates can be too long at 45 minutes, and sometimes six hours goes by in a minute. But a long date is not indicative of a l’chaim on the horizon. It just means that two people had a good time and the date went to six hours.
Too many people when going on their first date ever expect it to be like the movies with love at first sight, slow motion walks and white doves singing ahead. What it becomes of course, is a job interview: are you the person I’m looking for to fill this position? Are your values in line with what this company has come to expect?
I didn’t know about the dessert thing- thanks LWY for the info.
And, I agree with everyone above that said that a first date is how ever long it should be. If you’ve never met before, how can you be expected to keep up a five hour conversation? If you can- great! If not, don’t feel bad, and if you do feel bad, hopefully there will be a next date so you can talk some more.
GTG, my oven timer’s beeping.
Don’t u wish the girl had the power to end a date?!?!
I HATE when first dates are longer than 2 hours. It drives me crazy. What really bothered me was when i first staarted dating which feels like many moons ago and i was dating semi yeshivish types many used to take me out for HOURS like 4-6 hour dates and then say NO…i mean cmon- why the heck are you leading me on and wasting my time? sooo rude
The only date I’ve been on that was less than 4 hours was with one guy that really annoyed me.
I like long dates, you actually learn something about them other than “what school did you go too?”
I once spent 45 minutes on the phone with a guy BEFORE our first date! and the first date was from 7-12ish.
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Good point about the first date being always awkward. I stupidly told my would-be husband no after our first date because I expected to KNOW he would be my soulmate. Took all the way until the second date to feel that connection.