I know that before even reading anything, about half of your pointers are over the comment button and you’re ready to type out a message that could be distilled into “I think suits on dates are stupid.” I know you do. This post is an explanation of why some people think they aren’t, and indeed, consider them essential attire for the young man when he first shows up to take out a prospective.
There are three reasons to wear clothing. The first is utility. Clothing protects one from the elements, and specific clothing may be necessary to do specific work, such as overalls for a chemical plant operator or a big plastic suit for those who work with biohazards. For those with white collar jobs or who aspire to vocations in Talmudic study, a suit is such a work-mandated uniform. Therefore, a suit serves almost the same purpose as the antelope dinner did to Igga—it demonstrates what the wearer’s social demographic and/or income bracket looks like. Of course, anyone could just buy a suit for dating purposes. However, the parents of daughters are sure that young men will understand instinctively, even if they are not well-read, the advice of Henry David Thoreau, “Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes.” If you need to buy clothing to date, you’re probably looking in the wrong place.
The first blends with the second reason to wear clothing: affiliation. 
A kilt affiliates one with a Scottish highland clan, whereas baggy, beltless pants affiliates one with prison inmates. A suit, for the student of Talmudic Law, shows his affiliation with the community of Talmudic Lawyers. (You can usually differentiate these from the American Lawyers by the color of the accompanying tie.) Other communities may dress up by wearing pink shirts or tan chinos or any number of other ways. Showing up in a suit demonstrates that you affiliate with the suit-wearing crowd. If “dressed up” and “suit” do not coincide in your mind, then do not bother to court someone from the suited crowd. They will be peeved from the very first expansive sight of your shirtfront. If “dressed up” and “first date” do not coincide in your mind, then either skip to reason three, or skip this post entirely.
Reason three is oft-forgotten. I was reminded of it a few Shobbosim ago while admiring the beautiful yet practical layout of the Breuer’s shul in Washington Heights. “When I grow up, I want to be a yeki,” I decided impulsively. Then I noticed the things that were obstructing my view of the layout—namely, the men. Or what was on them. I noticed that, oddly enough, their suits fit. There were no vertical or horizontal wrinkles in the backs I was looking at. Jackets didn’t hang from shoulders as if from hangers. Pants broke neatly across well-polished shoes. It was a lone outpost of non-lawyers who could wear dress pants and concurrently look well-dressed. There was a sartorial symbiotic relationship going on down there—they dignified their clothing, and their clothing dignified them.
Which is the point. The point of wearing clothing, the point of wearing a suit, and the reason for both of the first two reasons for wearing clothing/suits. (Yes, that made sense. Just reread it if necessary.) By dressing in a dignified and handsome manner, you show respect for yourself, but even more so, to the people who have to look at you. Dressier clothing means the date is more important to you and that you ascribe more importance to your impression.
Or else that you heard you have to show up in a suit, so you did.
shabosim in incorrect, even in ashkenazis-
the grammatically correct word is shabosos
i suppose you can get away with it by claiming that shabosim is in fact, a yiddish word, only borrowed from the original hebrew.
We could be very technical here and point to tosfos in kesuvos 5a as well as shabbos davening where it is apparent that the word can take both masculine and feminine forms.
Silly silly post and below your usual standard. It’s true that the clothing you wear shows an affiliation, but that is it. People in your community where suits because that’s what everyone does, and because not to wear one would be unusual. The opposite is true in other communities. I’m pretty right wing modern Orthodox, and if I showed up on a date wearing a suit the girl would probably break a rib laughing. Wearing a suit isn’t inherently better or worse – it’s just a social convention, the same way that yeshivish people always invite the guy in for a few minutes and MO people are just as likely not to even meet at the girl’s house.
Your third reason actually proves my point. Wearing a suit does not mean you are well dressed, and vice versa. Much like the hat, the yeshiva world has fetishized the suit as the only way to dress nicely. The rest of the world has moved on from that. And even those who still wear suits don’t stick to black and white – in fact, you are just as likely to see a banker in a blue or cream shirt as in a white one. You can walk into any yeshiva and see dozens of guys in black suits and white shirts who look like shlumps, and you can walk into many upscale law firms – at many of which suits are no longer mandatory at all times – and see people immaculately dressed in chinos and a pink oxford.
LOL. Funny- when I saw “suit,” I thought you were talking about a girl wearing suit on date, which, btw, you couldn’t pay me enough to do.
Hold up. Did you insinuate that only yekkes take pride in their raiment?
There is a difference between a more American upbringing, rather than one with European (rather than German) influences. Sadly, education about Italian designers are falling by the wayside.
Go WH! People with self-respect rule!
I didn’t say suits were better or worse or that it had to be black and white. I said they were necessary in certain communities and explained why. MO people don’t wear suits, then this doesn’t apply. I’m not writing about MO dating anyway. Never have.
This post is a direct response to a question from someone who self-describes as ultra orthodox, yet didn’t want to wear a suit to a first date.
To me, “didn’t want to wear a suit to a first date,” is code for “I identify with yeshivish, and would like to date yeshivish girls, but I am uncoventional.”
**Alert!** If I were a young woman, and I were looking for a yeshivish free thinker, than maybe this guy is for me. **Alert!**
Now, if a fellow took a date to a fine restauarant or symphony, and didn’t want to dress up according to social norms, well, that’s not free thinking or unconventional; that’s just plain sloppy.
I didn’t say suits were better or worse or that it had to be black and white. I said they were necessary in certain communities and explained why.
Nothing in your post gave a reason for wearing a suit, beyond “that’s what people in this demographic do,” which we already knew.
Your first reason was that a suit implies higher socioeconomic standing, which simply hasn’t been true in years. Your second reason I grant is true, but it is a restatement of “yeshivish people wear suits because they do.” It’s not a reason so much as a statement that this is what the community does. It’s true you didn’t explicitly mention black and white, but let’s be realistic – if a guy showed up at a yeshivish girl’s house wearing a tan suit and a blue shirt, tongues would wag. Your third reason is that suits look more dignified, which is not really true – we all know that the yeshiva guy in a shlumpy suit doesn’t look very dignified. In fact, as I said, you proved the opposite – the yekis look good in suits because they take care to look good. It has nothing to do with the suit – it has to do with how you take care of yourself and your clothing regardless of style.
Your last line “dressier clothing means the date is more important to you and that you ascribe more importance to your impression” doesn’t follow at all from anything you wrote. If you said “neater clothing” or “taking care of your appearance” then I would agree, but dressier clothing does not necessarily lead to that.
I know you aren’t writing about MO. You missed my point. All of your reasons (demonstrating social status, wearing a “community uniform”, having a dignified appearance) apply just as much to MO dating, but for some reason that doesn’t lead to us wearing suits. Ergo, these reasons don’t necessarily show anything about suits. Yeshivish people wear suits because they do; MO people don’t because they don’t. All your explanations beyond that hold no water after a moment’s thought.
Now, if a fellow took a date to a fine restauarant or symphony, and didn’t want to dress up according to social norms, well, that’s not free thinking or unconventional; that’s just plain sloppy.
People still wear suits to the symphony (although it’s no longer terribly gauche to go in shirtsleeves) but there are perhaps 3 restaurants in NY state upscale enough to dress up for. You don’t dress up for a place like Le Marais or Abigaels, and very few daters are going much above that price range. This reminds me of that scene in the Brady Bunch Movie where they all got dressed up to go to Sears and everyone in the store was staring at them.
What about a “suit” is “dressy”? Suits are for work/office/meetings more so than a night out these days it’s FORMAL not dressy.
You were in my neck of the woods and didn’t come for dinner?!?
I’d love to meet the (in)famous Bad4 some time….
**Alert!** If I were a young woman, and I were looking for a yeshivish free thinker, than maybe this guy is for me. **Alert!**
Total aside, but did anyone ever notice how Artscroll gedolim biographies often use the word “freethinker” as a pejorative? It took me a few times seeing it to realize that they were translating “maskil” that way. It’s sort of fascinating, since “freethinker” sounds really positive in English, but frum people are used to thinking of the word “maskil” as a dirty word.
G6 – you didn’t invite me… I’m too well bred to crash complete strangers who I don’t know exist. Well, maybe not, but it’s hard to crash when you don’t know where someone is, y’know?
OK – it wasn’t well written. Rewrite here: if you associate with a community, you should dress like they do, and the reason they dress that way is ostensibly for certain reasons that you should keep in mind when dressing. (The last line kinda agreed that there’s no point in wearing a suit if you aren’t aware of why.) You can easily fulfill all three without a suit, and a Scot could attend a black-tie affair without a kilt, but it wouldn’t mean the same thing. [sigh] Overnight is clearly too rapid a turnaround on a post. Apologies.
the average yeshiva guy wheres white shirts and black pants with a black blazer and hat almost all the time. speaking from experience, this makes life a lot easier, your basicly expected to wear a uniform and you dont have to think twice in the morning as to what your going to wear, this is actually conducive to learning believe it or not. you dont have to think too much about the mundane and this allows you to better concentrate on your learning. this does not mean that yeshiva guys dress shlumpy, some do, thats true just as some MO guys do as well. the yeshivas that i have been to, amongst them ner yisrael, chaim berlin and torah vodaath, make sure the boys are dressed immaculately. maybe the yeshiva guy of ten years ago was a grease ball but no longer. guys usually dress nicely and as a matter of fact,, many yeshivos are upset at guys these days for putting too much emphasis on clothing (yea there are varying degrees of black and white believe it or not)
once we accept the aforementioned as true, that is to say, that yeshivish guys for the most part wear black and white (for whatever reason), than we can understand why they wear suits on a date. it goes without saying that one should dress a notch up then usual when going on a date. for yeshivish guys this would logically lead to a suit because its just plain rude to go on a date wearing your regular yeshiva clothing while the girl had spent some time making sure she looks nice.
it basicly shows the girl that the guy is considerate. its really not such a complicated thing and is quite acceptable to the mind. would you have a yeshiva guy that wears white shirts all day show up on a date in a pink shirt? does that make any sense? if anything its misleading.
Yeshivish guys wear a suit because Yeshivish guys wear a suit. The same way if everyone came to shul carrying a duck, it would be a really big deal if you came to shul without your duck. (I’m referencing a really old Far Side comic). There’s nothing inherently important about wearing a dark suit, white shirt and boring tie.
Now if you wore a suit like Barney Stinson, then that would be awesome.
You are absolutely right!
So consider this your formal invitation – the next time you plan on being in my neck of the woods, feel free to email me.
Though I must warn you that while some members of my family fit the description you gave, others look suspiciously like they slept in their suit.
g6 , who are you referring to?
I agree with bad4 on the third reason. the reason i wear a suit on the first date is to put my best foot forward, and to show that dating this girl is important to me. and the next girl is also important to me. and the next… but bad4 ‘s point is a very subtle one, which is why she is getting so much flak for this point
Ah, the influence of the Obama administration. George W would not be seen without a jacket on in the Oval Office. He had respect for the office.
Not to say that President Obama doesn’t, but he doesn’t wear a jack in the office. Guys were suits because its easier, you know the jacket matches the pants!
Men in suits are HOT. I love Jewish men