I’ve been informed: the female pays for most of the wedding. The guy takes care of the flowers, orchestra, and photography, and the gal pays for everything else. (Hall? Food? What else is there, exactly?)
Exactly where did this distribution come from, and what if you don’t want to split it that way because you (female) have a photographer you like and you (male) have a hall you prefer?
Or because you want to do something really drastic and innovative, like decide these things together?
I was informed of this little tidbit after I made the suggestion that all the funds each side is willing to spend on the wedding be deposited into a joint account and expenditures approved by all as part of the overall budget. In total, it would probably reduce the payout, though increase the awkwardness.
So, who says the guy is a FOP? And why?
From what I understand, the decisions are made together.
It’s just the payment that is split that way.
And in Israel we split everything.
Another good reason to make Aliya….
Comment by Keels — November 12, 2009 @ 9:47 am
Oh, and btw. Took me a minute to understand those initials.
“FOP” sounds so bad…I’m glad I’m a girl.
I would feel so degraded to be branded by bad4 “the guy is a FOP”
just sounds like it would be a bad word…
Comment by Keels — November 12, 2009 @ 9:49 am
Isn’t it “flop?” Flowers;liquor;orchestra; photography?”
Comment by Anonymous — November 12, 2009 @ 9:57 am
I was told its FLOPS, the S being for sheitel or souvenir (bentcher), whichever you’d rather.
Comment by Thinking Out Loud — November 12, 2009 @ 10:11 am
Sigh, that’s FLOP as anonymous above commented. It isn’t a hard and fast rule in practice. Some girls’ parents end up paying for everything. Sometimes the choson’s side just mentions a sum and the kallah’s side takes care of the actual “purchasing.” Sometimes decisions are made by both sides–parents and choson and kallah together–and sometimes not. Either side can make suggestions but the usual practice is that he who pays gets the final word. Some things are the purview of the kallah and her mom–what color will be used for flowers, tablecloths etc. Most leave the choice of mesader kedushin to the choson and his parents, unless there’s a special reason for choosing someone the kallah’s side wants–he’s the gadol ha’doar for instance and is the kallah’s grandfather.
What else is there besides food and the hall? Just food and the hall is deceptive. Most halls charge for the use of the chupah. There’s a charge for a mashgiach. The charge for the waiters and busboys is figured separately. What are you serving? Price will vary. Are you serving liquor? There’s a hall charge to open and serve the bottles, even if they sit on the tables. Don’t like plain white tablecloths? There’s a charge for colored. Want something other than a plain round white plate? Yup, additional charge. And then add in the cost of invitations and of bentchers. Add all these things up and then add on tax, yes tax. And then there’s the “little” fact that the kallah’s side usually outfits the new couple’s home.
Comment by Prof K — November 12, 2009 @ 10:17 am
I had always heard it as FLOP or FLOPS; my parents knew of it as FLOP in the seventies. Is the FOP thing for dry weddings?
We split out wedding costs proportionally. My side had 60% of the guests, and my parents paid 60% of the costs. (We paid to set up our apartment ourselves, between the stuff we’d bought ourselves earlier to furnish our singlehood apartments, or stuff bought with the wedding money.) I had originally envisioned it as splitting the non-guest-related costs equally (most notably the photographer and band), but our parents found it easier to do it that way. Why should the girl’s parents pay for most of the costs? Isn’t the guy getting married just as much as the girl is?
Comment by GilaB — November 12, 2009 @ 10:48 am
Gila – presumably, the kallah’s family is grateful that her chassan rescued her from spinsterhood. Paying for most of the wedding is a but a token of appreciation, and the least they can do :>)
Comment by Ari — November 12, 2009 @ 10:58 am
But Ari, the girl has no requirement to marry. She’s doing him the favor. Eccentric bachelorhood is not preferable to lonely spinsterhood.
And the whole bearing children thing? Last I checked, no cakewalk.
Comment by Princess Lea — November 12, 2009 @ 11:28 am
FWIW, when Eeees and I got married, our parents split the costs.
The Wolf
Comment by WolfishMusings — November 12, 2009 @ 11:57 am
Yep, in Israel we usually split everything. But mostly it’s the girl who picks the photographer, and the guy who finds the orchestra.
Of course, some innovative couples split the expenses in a very real sense by paying themselves (from the weeding gifts) for everything. That’s what my big sis and her husband did – and what I hope to do!
Comment by wellspring1986 — November 12, 2009 @ 12:01 pm
It’s actually FLOP where L goes for liqueurs with possible S on the end for Sheitel. You may use this for future ref – F.L.O.P. checklist. I always thought there was also a Wikipedia article but i can’t find it anywhere.
Comment by Dude with Hat — November 12, 2009 @ 12:03 pm
well, the guy did pay (or: should have paid) for everything while they were dating and engaged. (And rings ain’t cheap.) Plus, usually the bulk of subsequent family income is from the husband. So in the long-run, the girls do just fine and can pay for something.
Comment by jon — November 12, 2009 @ 12:06 pm
My father thought it would be FLOPS, that the guy pays for the sheitel too. My future father in law gave my father a budget, that he would pay for FLOP and Benchers within that budget. My father did the research on almost everything for him, and then the guy’s side checked it over, made some adjustments and signed the contract. So basically we decided everything together.
With furniture, I think both sides are going 50/50, in that my future father in law said an amount he’s willing to pay, and my father will match it.
Also, the hall can be expensive, my father wanted a certain hall, and that is double the amount that the chosson’s father’s paying for everything. The Kallah side also pays for invitations.
Also, my mother said that my parents are excited about the wedding, and all the preparations are really for the parents, because it’s their way of letting the child go. Cause really the kallah herself supposedly doesn’t remember her wedding.
Comment by jewishside — November 12, 2009 @ 12:09 pm
What about the other “required” gifts,a watch and a Shas for the Chosson, a bracelet and pearls or earrings for the Kallah. Furniture for their appartment and, of course, supporting them for the next few years. All add up as a part of the marriage costs over and above the cost of the wedding party.
I was lucky, the inlaws and I split the wedding costs. My kids got help from us to pay for tuition for graduate school and now they are self sufficient (except for babysitting – but that is my return on investment)
Comment by Old Lady — November 12, 2009 @ 12:17 pm
The way I heard it put is, “If you want FLIP, you pay for FLOP.” FLIP = Frum Lady Intelligent and Pretty; FLOP = Flowers liquor orchestra photography.
Comment by Michael Kopinsky — November 12, 2009 @ 5:17 pm
In America that is the traditional split. But they may split differently elsewhere. For example, in England the invitations are still issued from the parents of the bride, as they are the ones who foot the bill altogether. But one needn’t be locked in. If the chasson’s side is inviting a far greater number of guest, for example, it would be right for them to offer to pay the cost for the guests over a certain number. Also if the groom’s side wants some type of menu upgrade that is beyond the means of the bride’s side, they could offer to pay the difference if it is important to them. But neither side should squander money on lavishness when the money can be put to better use for the couple’s future. See what Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan had to say about it in a very apt way at http://kallahmagazine.blogspot.com/2009/11/hillels-approach-for-chanukah-and-for.html
Comment by Ariella Brown — November 12, 2009 @ 7:16 pm
You lutvaks are weird. What does a guy know about flowers? I admire the chasidishe way: everybody pays 50/50, the kallah gets to choose her own flowers, and they have the most heart-warming mitzvah tantz – the wedding doesn’t just end after wild dancing.
Comment by Go Chasidish — November 12, 2009 @ 9:05 pm
FLOP, FLOPS, Sharing Costs, FLOP + an excess for couples above a certain number. Whatever the two sides agree.
The post wedding stuff is all negotiated and various subcultures have different practices as to what else the parents contribute. Pearls? Shas? Ring? Watch? etc.
When we were married my parents paid for some part, the in-laws another part and we paid for the Photographer.
Other friends paid for the wedding without parents participating.
The only important thing is not to get into a dustup.
Comment by Chaim — November 12, 2009 @ 10:44 pm
before u ppl advocate making aliyah, remember that in israel the girl’s family is often paying for the bulk of an apartment.
Wedding costs are barely noticeable in comparison.
Comment by Frum n' Flipping — November 13, 2009 @ 2:26 am
Frum n’ flipping: This isn’t the case for Chasidim and for most Sephardic families.
I agree that for the others who do observe this ‘minhag’, it’s indeed a terrible burden. I could never understand how people put up with it.
Comment by wellspring1986 — November 13, 2009 @ 3:22 am
Heaven for fend that the couple has earned at least some of their own money and can pay their own rent.
Comment by Princess Lea — November 13, 2009 @ 10:55 am
Love comment 15
Comment by Anonygirl — November 13, 2009 @ 11:30 am
Princess Lea: exactly. I am most baffled by couples who are financially dependent on their parents, and then moan about not being treated like adults or taken seriously. *shrug*
Comment by wellspring1986 — November 14, 2009 @ 12:14 pm
For us, girl’s family paid for their own clothes and travel expenses to the wedding. Boy’s family, same. Wedding was kept pretty low key but still paid for on chosson’s credit card, and then paid off a couple of years later with stock options from his employer. And we weren’t especially older, I was 22, he was 23 — he paid for it rather than me because he was making more money and had better credit. After the wedding it was “us” anyway. Paid our own rent and bought our own furniture too. In fact, when he heard I was “obligated” to buy him a tallis during our engagement, he gave me the money and sent me to the store. I guess our parents never heard of this minhag that it was their job to pay for any of it. We got married anyway.
Comment by Miriam P — November 15, 2009 @ 12:45 pm
that is sooo cool!! u r so lucky!! r u sefardi, chasidish, or wat?
Comment by onlyme! — November 15, 2009 @ 7:15 pm
I don’t get that part.
Whats wrong with getting your chosson a present?
A tallis is a present, that’s all.
Did you pay him for your ring?
Comment by Keels — November 16, 2009 @ 2:12 am
Keels – there’s nothing wrong with getting a gift, if you really feel like getting a gift. There is something wrong with being told that you have to get a gift, want to or not. A tallis needs to be bought anyway, so that’s no big deal, but what about the other “mandatory” gifts, like gold watches, necklaces, silver leichters, a silver atara for the tallis, and on and on and on…?
Comment by bad4shidduchim — November 16, 2009 @ 9:10 am
Bad4: I was checking up some of my seminary notes, to look something up, and I came upon something that reminded me of your comment about “mandatory gifts”, particularly the watch.
The reason for the Minhag to give a watch is to remind you to be careful with Shalom Bayis, that if one thing is not working then it’s messed up. So every day a person has to work on marriage and can’t let one thing go not fixed.
Comment by jewishside — November 16, 2009 @ 1:38 pm
Agree with all of the above regarding the shalom bayis and the gifts etc. Gifts should be given b/c of actual feeling of affection to the other, not b/c that’s the norm. It’s a terrible thing to be “forced” to pay for something else b/c that’s the practice.
Sure, the “typical” split is FLOP/FLOPS vs. everything else, but I hear that actually comes to about 50%. This I think is to minimize quarrels, rather than cause them. But like everyone above said, make your own agreement.
Comment by Yosef — November 16, 2009 @ 6:41 pm