19 thoughts on “Would You Please Be Normal?

  1. What’s this “dating sparingly”? Memah nafshach, if he thinks he shouldn’t be dating to give this girl a chance, and to not give any other potential suitors the wrong idea, why was he advised to date sparingly? If he’s still trying to get married in the interim why is he not dating “fulltime”?

  2. Man. There are some serious flaws in this system that seems to spin us around in circles until we’re dizzy and motion sick. I was thinking of starting a protest – y’know, signs, banners, and ribbons across our chests saying “Votes for Women” I mean “Change the System” or something like that. Of course reenstating the Tu B’Av practice sounds much more appealing…

  3. With all due respect(which should tell you where this is headed…I know, big surprise:)…

    If the author of this “letter” expects to be taken seriously given the content of its first three paragraphs he is dealing with a heavy case of cognitive dissonance not to mention arrogance.

    As the great John McClane once said: Welcome to the party pal!

    A few other things:

    -The overall point of the letter is very true and the issues they cause are very real.(IMO he would have been better served to skip the intro/bio and concentrate on his main thought).

    -“I donโ€™t have any advice for how to make it better, since that is beyond my realm”, the great majority of items on this topic will at some point make use of this idea in one form or another. If one has a problem with something then they should put forth at least some idea as to how to fix it to some degree, otherwise it’s just whining.

    -He’s right, he got played and it was wrong and more than one person (shadchan&parents) was at fault. However, a careful reading will show that he himself was going to try and play both sides against the middle. They were as fair to him as he was going to be to them as well as any other young lady that he would have deemed worthy of “dating sparingly”…”In the end, with the guidance of several of my Rebbeim, it was decided that I would date extremely sparingly (I was very busy as it was with school), and that I could not get engaged without giving this girl a date first.”, Please!

    -It did make me laugh so, y’know, he’s got that goin’ for him. “I’m awesome!! Who the hell do they think they are?!”

  4. “…it was decided that I would date extremely sparingly (I was very busy as it was with school), and that I could not get engaged without giving this girl a date first.” The second half of that statement doesnt make much sense either. basically, in the event that he met somebody special, he’d have to put the girl that he’s seeing on the back-burner while he checks this chick out. meanwhile, his chief complaint about the offending girl is that she wanted a date with him although she was seeing somebody else. they’re pretty much the same kind of thing as far as im concerned.

  5. When a modicum of sense and intelligence is applied it is not too hard to see the difference between his actions and hers. He had not started dating her yet, and he would not be for some time- it is pretty reasonable that he should meet other girls in the interim. Remember, agreeing to go on a shidduch with someone is not the same as agreeing to marry them. She however was already meeting someone and was at an advanced stage of the courtship when she agreed to meet our protagonist. So, while he, by meeting other girls meanwhile, was thereby not agreeing to necessarily MARRY her, she, by being deeply involved with someone at the time the shidduch was suggested, was not agreeing to give him a chance.

  6. The fact is: he should not have ben so naive as to agree to participate, since such a long delay is always likely to complicate matters. He would have been better off saying that he was not available at the time, but happy to reconsider in the weeks immediately prior to Pesach.
    Keep up the blogging!

  7. g- and so Die Hard Comes to frum blogs. Just to boggle your mind, the first movie was based on a book, Nothing Lasts Forever (I think that’s the title) which was JM’s 2nd story. His first story was also made in to a movie – starring Frank Sinatra – Now, go back and watch Die Hard again. I dare you.

    As to the content of the discussion – seems to me the author of the “essay” got a cold, hard dose of reality. Burns don’t it? Hopefully he’ll get over it, but he should realize that in any given crowd, there’s always one…

  8. “When a modicum of sense and intelligence is applied it is not too hard to see the difference between his actions and hers.”

    I beg to differ.

    Letโ€™s create a scenario where he goes out with someone between now and his agreed upon date with this young lady in the future**. By his own guidelines he has set it so that he will not, cannot(!), get engaged to lady B w/o having gone out at least once w/ lady A. In this scenario lady B is at best put in the uncomfortable position of having to hold off on an engagement so that he can “keep his word” and assuage his own sense of integrity and at worst is merely a filler date, a let’s see what happens maybe I’ll get lucky (not that way!!) date, until he can go out on his “real” date with lady A. Now, this might not be the just like his situation but it posses many of the same characteristics.

    Meanwhile, if in fact he does meet someone that he wishes to become engaged to while waiting for lady A he has already stated that he will not make it official until having gone out on he pre-set date, lest he break his word. So, he will go out on this date knowing full well that he plans on becoming engaged to lady B whom he already has a relationship with. In this case he is treating lady A EXACTLY as he claims to have been treated.

    Either way out recently slighted fellow was not planning on handling his situation in a spotless and totally upstanding manner, now I cannot stress this enough…AND THAT IS FINE. Just don’t go around decrying the actions of others.

    **we still have not determined what dating “sparingly” means, does this mean that he will only go out w/ a predetermined no. of people…on a predetermined no. of dates…on a predetermined no. of dates with any given person…w/ only those persons deemed to be superior in some way to the present date, much clarification is needed in this regard.

  9. “g- and so Die Hard Comes to frum blogs.”

    -**smile**Well, well, well, there’s hope for this group yet.

    “Now, go back and watch Die Hard again. I dare you.”

    Thank you, Mr. Ben I’ll take that under advisement. You make it sound like I wouldn’t, or don’t, do so anyway. You could not be more wrong ๐Ÿ™‚ One must keep those movies with top notch usable dialogue fresh in oneโ€™s mind.

  10. g- the dare is not to watch Die Hard, the dare is to watch it keeping in mind that John M was once played by…Frank Sinatra. “Now I have a machinegun” just isn’t the same. Although there is some serendipity in humming “I did it my way” during the last half of the film.

  11. This whole thing is a bunch of bull….WHy should I have any loyalty to someone that I’ve never met and probably will not even like once I meet her??? I don’t see why there’s a problem with dating someone after saying yes to someone else. From the guy’s end, I’m not sitting around doing nothing during the 1-3 weeks it takes the girl to do her research, at the end of which she may decide to not even go out. I’m sorry, but I’m not wasting my time for total strangers.

  12. I think people will be that way, and that’s that.
    No speech, no rabbi, no article will change them.
    It’s unfortunate, but I consider that a harsh reality.

  13. simcha, the law about negia states that only “b’derech chiba” is prohibited.

    Last I checked most people don’t consider hitting someone to be a sign of affection.

    (although its forbiden to hit for other reasons but…)

  14. I’m going to take up the battle cry with Elitzur — This is a lifestyle (not sure if that’s precisely the word I’m looking for, but it works) thing, not a specific “system” glitch and not one that will be solved by adding more rules to the game.

  15. Bas~Melech, while I appreciate your support I feel the achrayos to warn you, you’re walking on a slippery slope…

  16. It seems that the above discussion entirely missed the point.
    After reading the article I’m left with more questions than answers. What role did the girl play? Was she aware of her parents’ plans? Would she have gone along with them if she had known? What role did the shadchan play? Was she/he aware of the parents’ true motivations? Further, I don’t understand why ‘one dating guy’ didn’t negotiate with the shadchan whether he would go out or not before Pesach. It doesn’t sound like ‘dating sparingly’ is the solution, as was mentioned above, once you’re dating, you’re dating.

    The system stinks. There is dishonesty and inconsistency everywhere. From any angle the parents were 100% wrong. However- it is crucial to understand that it is hard to determine who else was responsible.

    and David- your attitude stinks. ‘Iโ€™m not wasting my time for total strangers.’ That’s what shidduchim is about. It’s reasonable for you tell a girl that you’ll wait a week for her to do the research. But to go ahead and date, bad move.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s