Women: The Memo You Missed

“I don’t want to be one of those women who wake up at thirty to realize that in the past seven years they’ve dated every single eligible bachelor in the municipality – all five of them – with no success. So working in central Iowa is not an option for me until I’ve snagged a husband,” I explained.
“Well, you’re so nice I’m sure they’re lined up ’round the block, so find one this year and then you don’t have a problem,” she replied. Well, talk about compliment of the year. I was pleased (clearly I have her fooled!), but also amused.
“Actually, they’re not lined up ’round the block,” I informed her.
“Really?” she puzzled this over. Then a light bulb went off. “Well you’re dating Jewish men, and everyone knows they go from taking orders from their mothers to taking orders from their wives. So you can’t wait for them to ask you out – you ask him. When you find a guy you like, you go over and ask him, ‘Would you like to go out Wednesday night or Thursday?’ Try it – you’ll see. He’ll adore you.”


42 thoughts on “Women: The Memo You Missed

  1. you know, you have the wrong attitude. you dont have to snag a husband any more than a guy has to snag you. you sound desperate the way you put it.

  2. That’s a great idea….for those of us who would like to take a very LOOOOOOOOOOONG dating break.

  3. Chan – could things be worse than they already are for the emo shidduch bloggers? Inquiring minds want to know.

  4. Someone once tried to ask me out through a friend of hers approaching a friend of mine. I was involved with someone else at the time, but probably would’ve declined anyway.

  5. The gemara in kiddushin says derech haish lachzor acher haisha. however chances are if you attempt the above advice you would at least get a date or two out of it. i have found that women like being asked out. i mean the times when i have dropped the shadchan and asked them out further the joy on their face was apparent. so while your way may be less romantic it still may work if the guy is sensitive enough to court you

  6. I’ve asked girls out point blank, some have said no and some have said yes.

    I realize it’s probably easier for a guy to ask, but personally I think it would be awesome if girls would ask guys out!

    Maybe make a “Rebbitzen” Hawkins Shabbaton?

  7. Some guys enjoy the “chase” aspect of asking girls out. These guys wouldn’t be cool with being asked out. I think most other guys would like it.

  8. I definitely wouldn’t say I enjoy the “chase” – it’s not like I’m going to bars and smooth-talking; I’m waiting for my friends’ wives and other such people who know me to call me and give me a name.

    And while it’s flattering (and quite ego-boosting) to get asked out, like I said, I wouldn’t (and don’t) work like that.

  9. From a figurative point of view this isn’t so crazy. Girls, or more aptly their parents, hunt down boys all the time and ask a shadchan to redt the shidduch. That’s not so crazy at all. You can even keep the same line of questioning as mentioned above, but consider finding an intermediary to make things less awkward. Literally and from a personal perspective, if a girl ever asked me out in such a manner, they’d get an instantaneous no. There is something very unrefined about it. To each their own I guess… 😕

  10. SiBW, that’s happened to me too (girl’s mother asking an intermediary to broach it with me), and that’s totally fine with me (I didn’t go out with her, but for a completely different).

    [Note: I don’t mean to keep tooting my own horn and making it seem like I’m the most eligible guy out there; I’m pretty sure these two times I’ve mentioned are the only instances, and besides, this is anonymous anyway, so it’s not like I have much to gain. I mean, I am the perfect guy and all, but people seem to not know that, somehow. 🙂 ]

  11. if a girl ever asked me out in such a manner, they’d get an instantaneous no. There is something very unrefined about it.

    I guarantee you that if it were the right girl in the right circumstances, it might be an instantaneous yes. There’s nothing wrong with that. We all surprise ourselves by doing things we thought we’d never do.

  12. tesyaa, that’s a good point: I agree that in the right circumstance I wouldn’t necessarily say no. But in general, I would. For example, I turned down the girl had a friend ask me out for her without even asking for her name – I didn’t know her, and I wasn’t interested. If it were someone previously familiar to me, it (could) be a different story – again, depending on circumstances.

  13. Tesyaa, guarantee?! Coming from someone who doesn’t know me or what I’m looking for, that’s quite a bold statement. 😉 I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree. If such a situation where to theoretically occur the same outcome I have predicted would transpire. The reason being, if a girl were to pull such a maneuver, regardless of whether said action is right or wrong, she wouldn’t be the right girl for me. Although, I do agree that “we all surprise ourselves by doing things we thought we’d never do,” but not in this context. 🙂

  14. SiBW, she said “guarantee…it might be…” – oxymoronic, maybe, but nothing to take issue with.

  15. SiBW, by automatically disqualifying women who would have the temerity to ask you out even in a modest or an appropriate way, you are just limiting your field to an almost impossibly narrow dimension. Narrow by hashkafa, narrow by age, now narrow simply by certain very specific social mores. It’s a very narrow subsection of the female species you are seeking. I know it only takes one, but it could take a very long time…

  16. Sorry, my last comment was too harsh. May you have success in finding just the right woman for you!

  17. This does work. There is no reason the guy always has to ask the girl out. I know of a case first-hand where the girl asked the guy out and it worked splendidly.

  18. tesyaa. isn’t this all about narrowing it down to the one???

    I don’t even know how to respond. You may define your “one” according to all your criteria, but that doesn’t mean that the idealized girl is out there, or even exists.

  19. tesya – while it may seem narrowminded to you, sibw makes a lot of sense. he obviously knows which kind of girl he needs better than any of us, and if he says the a girl taking the initiative to ask a guy out is not for him, i understand. it does take guts, and guts means that the eidelkeit and refinement is lacking just that tiny bit. it’s not right or wrong – it just is.

  20. Guts, yes. Unrefined. Uneidel. Certainly true. But is it a bad thing in a woman? You can be an eidel lady, but there are times you need guts. The guts to speak up to an unfeeling infertility specialist (hopefully no one will ever need one). The guts to speak up to an OBGYN who’s ignoring you even when you’re sure your unborn baby is in distress. The guts to speak up to the principal of the school that’s not doing right by your child. The guts to speak up to teenagers who cut in front of an elderly lady in the kosher store. You may be the most chivalrous husband alive, but you won’t be available in every single situation, and sometimes, it’s nice to be married to a woman with guts.

  21. I don’t necessarily disagree with you, tesyaa, but I don’t agree with that particular argument: in these cases if she doesn’t speak up, nobody will. In this whole asking-out business, there’s alomst always a more (I’ll use this word even though I really dislike it) “eidel” way to do it, i.e. ask someone to be a shadchan and treat it like any normal redt situation.

  22. It seems my question got lost in the dialogue, but what about girls proposing? Would that be considered “uneidel” or a situation where there is no one else to speak up? I’m curious what the readership has to say about this.

  23. I’m mostly with Tesyaa on this one.

    Of course, there’s a subtler way to do the same thing, which is what many young men and women do – start with going for coffee or lunch or the like, and build it from there. Jumping from nothing to “hey, wanna go on a date” could be just as bad from a guy to a girl and has less to do with what sex each is than the sudden surprise.

    I have a friend who is Chassidish whose wife was a co-worker. She started by asking him about friends of his she’d been set up with, then they moved on to coffee, and slowly they built a relationship. (Of course, then someone ‘set them up’, so perhaps not the perfect analogy.) Regardless – there’s little to lose by asking. A “No” is the same as not having asked at all.

  24. Last time I checked, coffee or lunch is a date for most people who read this blog. If not, then what have I been doing this whole time?

  25. The difference is, you’re not saying, “Hey, let’s go out!” It’s a much softer thing to say, “Do you want to go for a walk?” or “Do you want to go get some coffee?”

  26. Tesyaa, there must be a happy medium. Surely there are refined girls who have convictions or “guts,” and are willing and able to act on them. To the contrary, I have had the pleasure of meeting such girls in real life on dates. But to respond to your comment (in #27) yes, I assume and hope that there is truly only one girl out there for me based on the “idealized” criteria I think I need. If not, why would I date? Wouldn’t dating just be a task in utter futility?

    Also, although we may not see eye to eye on this issue, I would like to thank you for your well wishes in comment 23. May you have much bracha and mazel in all your endeavors!

    Mary Poppins, if need be, I’ll gladly write a post about it; although it may have to wait until next week.

  27. SiBW, you want there to be only one girl for you?! Put issues of whether or not there is only one for you (“bashert” etc.) – you’re telling me you’d prefer there be only one perfect match out there to there being several perfect matches? Why?!?

  28. Male, from a simplistic point of view, there are a myriad of potential matches that sound great on paper but I only need one them. Dunno, are you looking for more than one for yourself? 🙂 This might just be a semantics issue but I’d rather marry my one true soul mate than one of my potential perfect matches, it just sounds better. Furthermore, I am of the opinion (re: “bashert”) that at any given time there is only one perfect match available to a person, so that kinda helps. 😉

  29. Not understanding you – maybe, like you said, it’s just semanctics misunderstanding. Obviously I’m not suggesting anyone marry more than one person. My question was based on your use of the word “only” (and “hope”).

  30. Well, back in the day when Tu B’Av (and Yom Kippur) were celebrated with matches, the women didn’t just ask the men out but proposed marriage, see http://www.examiner.com/x-18522-NY-Jewish-Bridal-Examiner~y2010m7d25-The-origins-of-Tu-BAv-part-3
    They had no shadchanim representing the singles, no check on how much money would come into the bargain first, no overpriced cokes in hotel lobbies, and no shidduch crisis. REW SiBW’s comment, that is actually a misunderstanding of bashert, which is conflated with the secular idea of “The One” — a person out there who will one’s perfect match. See the actual Torah sources on bashert at http://kallahmagazine.com/DivreiTorah1.htm

  31. I think asking him out for coffee would be as good as asking him out on a date. :-/ I’m with Male (when did he go capitalized?) on that one. Part of what I thought was humorous about the advice was how entirely off it was, while being well-meaning.
    I noticed that nobody has commented on whether Jewish men are really all the adorably geeky, easily bullied types.

  32. I went capital because people were calling me Male, not male, so I did it for consistency’s sake. Inconsistency bothers me. (But thanks for noticing!)

    Advice that is “off” while “well-meaning” – that rings a bell. Lots of bells, actually.

    I can’t speak for all guys, but personally: I am geeky and easily bullied.

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