He’s So Not My Type (2 of 2)

He’s So Not My Type part 1

Recap: Mr. Keirsey divides the 16 Myers-Briggs types into 4: the Guardians, the Artisans, the Rationals, and the Idealists. He says most of the world belongs to the first two types, and some 20% or so belong to the latter. This effectively makes Rationals and Idealists weirdos. Or, I would prefer to think, rarities. (If this is what PNN meant in this post then I owe him an apology for a snarky reply.) Moreover, Keirsey says that people in the first set pair up while people in the second set should as well.

I believe this. You know those dates where you are just on completely different wavelengths? Like the guy I went out with who said that the only thing he regretted about being religious was not getting to taste shellfish. He also made fun of me because I said I liked the songs from Disney classics. Clearly he was very S (almost certainly an Artisan) and I am rather N (a Rational, in case you didn’t guess).

S-types think about things and N-types think about ideas. When Mr. S hears a Disney song he hears a well-crafted tune with lyrics. When I hear it, I hear an entire story representing a social theme. I, on the other hand, do not have his well-developed appreciation for good food. I am just as likely to get preoccupied and polish off the plate underneath. This is a gap that is difficult to bridge.

Therefore, it’s much easier for Ns to converse with other Ns and Ss to converse with other Ss. Heck, I know. Most of my friends are Ns. In fact, I would venture to guess that 98% of my single female friends are NTs. Ditto for my dates – that unending line of engineers, mathematicians, and economists.

Keirsey says we NTs are unlikely to be attracted to each other because we’re too similar. Yep, story of my dating career. Amazing conversation but… no third date. Why? Chemistry. Not the chemistry we talked about for three hours during the date, but the more biochemical type that involves pheromones.

Edits in this paragraph

So who would be intriguing enough to pique my romantic interest? According to Mr. K, an NF.

I don’t have sufficient data on this one.

I only know a few NFs. One is definitely married to an NT [waves at mindy: “Hi!”]. Little Sheep is another. And I’m pretty sure that  Chana and Erachet are, but I don’t know anything about their spouses.

In fact, I don’t know of a single female NT married to a male NF.

Actually, I don’t think I’ve ever met an Orthodox male NF. (Although now that I think about it, my college would-be beaus were NFs.)

Aha! I have found the true source of the shidduch crisis! Our community produces way too many Rational types, and not nearly sufficient Idealistic types to pair us all off.

Hey, it’s just as good as the other reasons out there, and no less intractable.

WANTED:  Orthodox Jewish male NF for single NT…

Oh wait.

I’m not the first person to try dating by Myers-Briggs typology. This guy tried it before me. And as far as I can tell, he’s still single…

Oh well. I’m still willing to give it a swing. Are you a single, male, NF? I’m officially asking you out.

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31 thoughts on “He’s So Not My Type (2 of 2)

  1. Pingback: He’s So Not My Type (1 of 2) « Bad for Shidduchim

  2. That is kind of interesting…I myself am an INFJ, and Stupid Inventor is an INTJ. We’re very similar in a lot of ways, but I’m definitely the more emotional and he’s the more cerebral. Our biggest disagreement to date is duct tape versus superglue, but otherwise, we get along. 🙂

    I do think the test is an accurate depiction of certain personality types, but at the same time, if you rely too heavily on it, it can close out options. If you put another restriction on dating, it’ll end up “Oh, he doesn’t wear a black hat, he has a purple tablecloth AND he’s only an ENTJ? No way, he’s not for me.”

    I honestly don’t believe that one CAN’T have chemistry with someone of their own MB Type. However, I believe it can be used as a tool to help better understand another and how they think once you are starting or in a relationship. I think finding out “Hey, my boyfriend is a T, meaning he’s more of a thinker than a feeler, and that’s just how his brain works” makes it a lot easier to understand where one is coming from and makes it more impersonal, so it’s not solely a misunderstanding and it’s not personal; it’s merely a difference in thinking, which usually one can’t think rationally about in the heat of a disagreement.

  3. According to this test, my husband is an ENFJ and I’m an ESTJ – according to their website, we shouldn’t get along, but I believe that we’re soulmates and we’ve been married for over 7 years. So don’t worry – there’s hope for all personality types!

  4. I know plenty of single male SP’s, but i doubt any of them are anywhere near your type (from what I’ve picked up from your posts), from a religious standpoint.

  5. I’m confused – you’re flipping between different sets, no? (S/N, T/F, P/J)

    Anyway – I’m an ENTP (formerly INTP). Serach is almost definitely ESFJ. We started off exact opposites.

    Pretty sure Chana is an ENFP. Erachet is an ISTP, I think. Jughead is an ENFJ, I think. Also exact opposites. I could be way off on those, though, I always forget what means what.

    Odd. Just for kicks I took a quick one now – says I’m an I_TP (50/50 on S/N), it’s picking S. I guess I’ve reverted to being introverted, and I no longer have the patience to take in more information. 😉

  6. I’m ENTJ, and I’ve noticed the kinds of women I gravitate towards tend to be ENFJ, but I don’t think there’s an “ideal type” or match. Though similarities are important and give us a similar frame of reference in relating to each other and the world, a good chunk of chemistry or attraction comes from tension and from those differences that create friction, i.e. sparks/heat.

    That can be a delicate balance, and sometimes just having friction isn’t enough, you need the right materials to make sparks fly.

  7. Most MBTI enthusiast will preempt that dating and marriage is not dependent on a perfect MBTI match. (Something along the lines of “Although two well-developed individuals of any type can enjoy a healthy relationship…”) That’s not to say there is anything wrong with having a perfect MBTI paring. Also, let’s not forget the academic contention that these tests aren’t clinically accurate since they are subjective interpretations.

    I think MBTI in dating can serve a different purpose entirely. If people were to exchange their personality types, their potential dates would actually know more about them. Let’s face it, no matter how many questions one asks in the research phase of dating, or how descriptive one is in their blurbs, it just doesn’t compare to the wealth on knowledge included in an MBTI personality. See my post on this topic for more info: http://solelyinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/2010/05/abstract-concept-dor-yeshorim-test-of.html

    From a relationship perspective MBTI is a fascinating indicator of how specific personality types think and operate. Having a basic understanding of the concept can be a very beneficial tool in getting along with others, especially those who aren’t naturally compatible. (There is even a whole section on the Keirsey site about what to do and not to do for specific dates based on their personality.)

  8. I’ve long believed what you wrote about the distinction between friendship chemistry and romantic chemistry that Keirsey doesn’t account for. As an NT all of my good friends are NTs as well, but I don’t think an NT would make a good romantic pairing for me. I think only empirical evidence could settle this, as there are many flaws in the assumptions that Keirsey makes.
    Also great point Mrs. Stupid Inventor! NTs the world over can’t wait for everyone else to realize that! 🙂

  9. Hi, my name is Ian and I just wanted to let you know that there may be a personality system that you would ‘like’ or ‘buy’ (as per your wording). I just published a book The Seven Ways ( TheSevenWays.com ). I dabbled in Myers-Briggs and Enneagram, but I have found them lacking, so I made this typing system based on the Ushpizin.

    In the book I have a chapter on Shidduchim. I have found consistently that that complementary types of personalities do get along, i.e. not the same but ones that compliment each other. I don’t agree with Kearsy much either in pairing up people (and the book is very very hard to read), I have found NTs get married to NTs and other personalities as well!

    In general, I think most NTs match up with “Netzach” personalities, as I call them, and Netzachs can marry many other personalities, not just other netzachs (thought they do go well together). I think people have primary middot qualities from the sefirot and secondary, too. Myers Briggs gets kinda one dimensional. Enneagram gets a bit deeper.

    I’m happy to elaborate more but I don’t want to take this my blog it it yours! Many of my friends enjoy your blog, I want to look at it now, seems interesting!

    All the best,

    Ian

  10. What @Ezzie said:

    It’s N/S and J/P

    I am an INTJ, my husband an INTP. And it was not love at first sight, we were friends and coworkers first, and we kind of grew on each other. 🙂

    I appreciate his rationality and not having to explain myself or apologize for myself. And he gets and appreciates my jokes.

    And our marriage would have had serious issues if we had not taken the M/B test – his tendancy to lose track of time and preference on not having a schedule drove me to distraction. I felt he was thoughtless and inciderate. But then I learned that’s just the way he wired. And maybe I was being too judgmental (J)

  11. “Aha! I have found the true source of the shidduch crisis! Our community produces way too many Rational types, and not nearly sufficient Idealistic types to pair us all off.”

    As a preschool teacher I think that could have to do with the fact that in rum schools we don’t allow kids as much freedom for creativity. “The apple has to be red and stuck exactly here” projects, rather than more open ended options, like “here are red, green and yellow materials what will you do with them?” So we are not encouraging kida\s to be idealistic and creative, but rather to learn logic and follow instructions

    This is even more pronounced in boys’ schools where even those projects are not offered after first grade, or so.

  12. Bad4, you’re INTJ, correct?

    I’m INTP, and am attracted to men who are N, and prefer Js. The N because I’m extremely intuitive and prefer the J because I’m mildly P and enjoy someone else making decisions. I like the greater responsibility J’s exhibit, it makes me feel cared for. F’s bring out the F part in me, but T’s are more stimulating.

    All my girl friends are INP’s, most NT. Can’t talk to S’s, we’re just on such different wavelengths.

  13. Er, apologies. I mixed up some letters. I’m not looking for an SP. They scare me. Moreover, it seems NFs are the idealists, not NPs. Will correct.

    Little Sheep – you can be an NFP… 😛

    Mariella – I’m glad you posted if only because you’re the first married female INTJ I know of. It’s nice to know that there’s hope.

  14. Bad4 – I actually know 2 married female INTJs and oddly they’re both professors in STEM fields (one is a relative, some thought she’d never get married.) She married an ENTP and the other married an ENTJ. Oh, and they both married later than average in their circles. They were both really good mothers and had/ have stable, happy marriages.

    So there’s hope for you.. In case you were wondering.

  15. I’m an ENFJ, my wife is close to both ESFP and ENFJ letters, but I guess thats the way it works, because you’re not (usually) totally one letter or the other its percentages, its called personality traits not types by psychologists. I think people marry people with different letters because it forces you to grow in one or a few areas.

  16. When I last took the test a quarter of a century ago in college, I came up as an INTJ (but almost an ENTJ). My wife of almost the same length of time was also an INTJ. Having taken it now, as a middle aged married adult, I came up as an ESTJ. So I suspect that you should find the person who sparks your interest, because even if they are currently an NT, they might change.

  17. Hey!!! i’m also INTJ, but they said that we are few and far between and i’m supposed to be special. waaahh!!! Although i’m also somewhat of an idealist. well no not anymore, i’m disenchanted.

  18. ABC – if there are 16 types, then 1/16th is 6% of the population. That’s rare, from one perspective. It’s dead on par for the course from another.

  19. Very often with these tests you get people answering what they think SHOULD be their answer, rather than what they actually are. For example with the humanmentrics test, it’s almost impossible to be a low-numbered J. If you test as a low-numbered J, it’s more than likely that you’re actually P but being idealistic and answering what you think you SHOULD be or what you TRY to do. There are many quick online testing vs. reality inconsistencies like that. Actual extensive real life testing has a higher chance of being correct.

    I tend to test as an INTJ, but am actually INTP or INT*. This becomes glaringly obvious in comparison to my husband, who tests as an INTJ as well but actually IS a strongly expressed INTJ. I like to look at things and think about how they could be improved or could have been improved in their process and usually don’t get around to actually improving anything. My husband looks at things and can immediately name fifteen concrete paths it could take or could have taken, chooses one and accomplishes it.

    The rationalist/idealist pairing is not an absolute thing (no such principles can be universally applicable to real life situations, after all). It comes into play often when one party is more idealistic than the other, even if the “idealistic” party is not all that idealistic objectively. It’s a matter of comparison rather than absolute value. Reducing the spread of difference on that scale can improve practical decision making. I personally find heavily idealistic people to be beyond tiresome, and yet fulfill the more idealistic role in comparison to my spouse.

    Also, maturity makes a big difference with these things. If you’re interested, look up dominant, secondary, tertiary, and inferior functions. An EN uses their intuition very differently than an IN, and secondary functions tend to mature and come into play in adulthood rather than in initial personality development as a teen.

  20. I usually score as an INTP when I take these things. I really like your theory about “our community produc[ing] way too many Rational types”. Whoever said that personalities are things that we’re born with?

    The corollary of that thought is that they’re probably also things we can change, which is an interesting notion. The way they word the questions on these tests usually makes each side seem like a good quality to have in theory, even if one leans towards one or the other of them. If there aren’t enough F’s to go around, why not turn yourself into one?!

    (Of course, I naturally find it more attractive to speculate in the abstract about personality-changing than to actually carry it out. Catch-22…)

  21. Pingback: My Explanations for the Shidduch Crisis « Bad for Shidduchim

  22. I’m an INFJ and single frum male. But I already asked you out via this blog. Life just kinda got in the way, and now I’m in israel for the near future.

  23. I have read and am currently reading Keirsey’s “Please Understand Me II.”
    I think NTs are more common than NFs in most communities. I also think that there are greater opportunities for NTs to meet each other. Like you said, “that unending line of engineers, mathematicians, and economists.” NTs tend to occupy certain occupational fields and professional circles. And because of the ease in communication and sharing of interest and preoccupation, I’m not surprised that you feel you run into NTs more often than NFs.
    I’m an NF female and definitely feel that I meet NTs more often than NFs. And I only know two possible NF males; one being my brother. Also, NTs are more easily identifiable. Their particular way of thinking about social custom and social rules and their precision in choosing words makes them stand out in a crowd. And these are the things that I can see as points of compatibility for myself. They have great potential to be careful, which is important to my sensitive NF self, and tend to be unafraid of breaking custom if that is where logic leads, which is attractive to the spiritual and idealistic side of me. And to my understanding, it is important for both NFs and NTs to feel free to explore possibilities. I think NFs tend to be sucked into the social order of those around them more easily because of our empathic nature.
    I think the Myers-Briggs and Keirsey texts and guides can be helpful to understanding ourselves and the relationships we form, but I don’t believe our personalities are everything in our relationships. My mom is an SP and my dad is an NT. I have a fellow NF friend with parents of the same kind. My parents have been happily and not-so-happily married for 37 years and have created and raised five children together. I don’t know how long my friend’s parents have been married, but they are my parents’ age, are still happily married, and my friend ten years older than me. All that to say, I don’t think the guide to personalities is a rule for mating. Some things work on paper but don’t work in action, and visa verse.
    I really enjoyed your post. thanks for it!

  24. 28 posts down to find an NF? I thought I may be the only one, maybe we are not 1.6%… Yeah, I’m an male Orthodox INFJ (I posted that on part 1), but I dated a girl recently who told me you moved away from the East coast, so how could we date???

  25. iyhby: You shouldn’t believe everything you hear about me. I’ve heard some of the most astounding things. That said, where there’s a will there’s a way.

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