For the third time in my life, I found myself explaining to a colleague why I won’t date a non-Jew. It was my fourth time running through it (once I had to do it on behalf of another orthodox girl in college whose identity I still don’t know), so I condensed it into one convincing but diplomatic line. Nothing against his friend who sounds like a great guy—this is just how it is. But I was beginning to note a pattern.
Non-Jewish men with strong values dig orthodox women.
Yes, ladies. There are guys out there who think you are hot stuff. Your aidelkeit catches their eye and they like what they see.
Okay, I’m laughing. I mean, I’m not exactly the prototype aidel bais Yaakov maidel. Not for lack of trying—I really gave it a shot once. But it just didn’t take. Still, compared to my colleagues, I’m the picture of sweetness and modesty. Also, I’m nice, friendly, kind, thoughtful, considerate, generous, and good with kids.
Oh wait, this isn’t my shidduch profile. Scratch that.
Anyway, this little discovery was a boost to my self-esteem. In addition to the demographic of men over the age of 50, it turns out I am also of interest to non-Jewish men with strong family values. At this rate of discovery, I might find a Jewish demographic to date by the time I’m 30. Hey, they must be out there.
Has anyone else had to field feelers from non-Jewish colleagues?
Yes. That’s one reason why parents try hard to marry off their daughters before sending them out into the real world, and why the frum world discourages secular colleges.
hopefully they like it enough to raise their eventual daughters similarly. think it’ll happen?
Since most gentiles base Jewish life upon Fiddler, and Chaveleh and Fietka eloped, and while Tevye rejected them he wouldn’t be so unreasonable nowadays, so it must be ok.
Even “to the left” aidelkeit by us is “to the right” morality to gentiles. So of course a nice Mormon boy would dig you.
That’s how we get frum men! Make them jealous with our Catholic admirers.
That’s how we get frum men! Make them jealous with our Catholic admirers.
Ha, that’s probably true. Frum guys are more interested when “even the non-Jewish guys who could go for anyone are interested in that girl!”
@Ezzie – to continue that thought process, if a gentile man, who more often than not has a very flawed sense of morality (per our understanding) because of his immersion in a very corrupting society, can recognize and desire the inner and outer beauty of an Orthodox Jewish woman – then kal vechomer an Orthodox Jewish man should find value in her as well.
It’s also a bit amusing from another point of view. Orthodox Jewish men have been so horribly influenced by the secular focus on specific looks and other insignificant things that we’ve begun to miss what’s really important – a woman’s middos, hashkafa, etc. If someone who lives in that world which produced such narishkeit views begins to value and find Orthodox Jewish women attractive, it’s almost as though they’ve surpassed us!
I had the opposite problem – non-Jewish coworkers would try to set me up with any single Orthodox male they happened to meet. It didn’t matter what his personality was like, his age, where he lived, etc.; if he was single, Orthodox, and bearing a Y chromosome, he was obviously perfect for me.
Wow, so I’m not the only one. It’s astounding how interested guys of other cultures and faiths have found me absolutely intriguing. There was the Muslim guy in my math class, my Irish math tutor in the tutoring center, the Hispanic dude in my American History II class, the Indian in my Bio class and the Irish Catholic in my Brit Lit class. Yup, it sure is nice to be appreciated for my good values, though I still wonder what they’re really thinking. ,
As far as Jewish men go, I don’t think it’s that they don’t notice Orthodox girls, rather, many have been taught not to pay attention. Also, it could be that we as Orthodox young women act differently around Orthodox men. When meeting an Orthodox man, there’s a heap load of pressure to be Ms. Perfect while around non-Jews there’s no reason to be anyone but ourselves. Maybe if we were less inhibited and more relaxed the Orthodox men would find our feminine mystique intriguing as well.
Gila B – I’m going through that right now. Today’s post was about that!
Yes, in just about every job situation I have had the same. Not specifically religious men, per say, but those who are more conservative.
It seems ironic somehow, on the one hand in the frum world to be seen as somewhat lacking (if only she was more trendy, pretty, outgoing, witty, etc.) while on the other hand being seen by somebody else on a daily basis and being liked and appreciated just for being yourself.
haha i like this post. so true. they totally love us. its so flattering. diggin my long skirt? great! might just be less tznius to go tznius!
Well, in a frum crowd you’re competing with a lot of equally aidel people, many of whom are also trendier, prettier, more outgoing and witting. Out in the big world you have almost no competition.
anon – really? Our parents are worried that after 14 years of aggressive bais yaakov education we’ll be unable to turn down a date with a non-Jew? I wouldn’t spend money on something in which I had so little faith.
Bad4, thats a Bad4shidduchim opinion. On a more seriosuly note, People (always anonymously) have been saying that for years, but still shell out the bucks.
For Real – I think there are other things aside from amorous classmates that makes people want to shelter their children. I don’t know why specifically daughters, though.
People are more reluctant to send girls out for several reasons. Part of it is tznius; most secular college environments are inherently non-tznius. Primarily, I think it’s because girls are more vulnerable than guys, and also, even now it’s far more likely for a girl to be pursued (and I’m not talking about someone just asking for a date and taking a couple of no’s for an answer) than the reverse.
“Anyway, this little discovery was a boost to my self-esteem. In addition to the demographic of men over the age of 50, it turns out I am also of interest to non-Jewish men with strong family values.”
hahahahaha that line made me laugh
The lass is always greener on the other side.
What’s your one convincing but diplomatic line?
Nobody Important – Well said 🙂
All in all, it’s probably because non-jewish men often know they don’t have shot, which makes the girl appear more desirable than she really is. A frum girl in a non-jewish environment, in their eyes, is “hard to get”. Guys love the girl they cant have.
Do you think you are “fielding feelers” more than your non-Jewish female coworkers? From what I’ve seen, in secular environments, all young pretty girls have to deal with that. The fact that you are frum and aidel apparently doesn’t turn guys off as much as you’d think.
Nope, MCP. In all these cases (except the unknown college girl) the guys were only vaguely aware that there might be an objection to dating out of nation, and they thought it could be overcome by commonalities and true love.
relarela – I have no idea what the other females deal with since I’m not them and this isn’t something we talk about, but I do know that I’m batting relatively well in the non-Jewish field versus the Jewish, if we equate non-Jewish feelers to second-dates. And, if I may point out, the other females in my workplace/college go to movies and bars with the guys, dress better, and far more approachable and available than I am. If a guy puts out feelers on me, he has to be pretty serious.
You’ll see when you are a parent; just because you have spent 14 years (or more) giving your children tools to protect themselves, doesn’t mean you want to expose them to potential danger.
As an aside, keep in mind that Orthodox men know they have to pursue you only for marriage; non-Jews are pursuing you just for a date. You are comparing apples and oranges.
anon – True, but when a guy is DMCing you about how few women he connects with and segues from there into debating your dating restrictions…
I understand the urge to overprotect, but at some point you need to push the chick out of the nest and all that, don’t you think?
explaining to a colleague why I won’t date a non-Jew.
Much preferable than explaining to a ROSH YESHIVA that I won’t date a non-Jew. The beis din that allegedly converted her mother had no record of it, so I had to cancel our date, earning me a furious loud telephone call from her Rebbi who accused me of shefichus damim and lying. Hey pal (though you’ll NEVER be my pal), don’t call me a liar when your claim is the one that cannot be substantiated.
Actually, I’d say this is the one thing that parents can greatly affect – if they just hang on a bit longer and get the chick married before pushing him/her out of the nest. I agree with some of what observer said. Guys have more control over whether or not they have a lot of contact with the opposite gender; girls do not approach guys nearly as much – both in a friendly manner and in a not-so-friendly manner.
Also, I’d like to say on behalf of guys like me that we do appreciate the aidel/tznius girl more. You may just have to look for a different type of guy that does appreciate those qualities.
As a chick pushed out of the nest myself at 18, I can appreciate not wanting to push my chick out until she’s married, so she is not in the awkward positions I was. (Much easier to explain to the non-Jew who wants to walk you home that you are already married, so it’s not appropriate, than that it’s a Jew/non-Jew thing, and to deflect propositions with “sorry, I’m married”.)
I’m not saying I wouldn’t let my daughter go to a college, or get a job, where she is exposed to non-Jews; just that all other things being equal, I’d like to err on the side of keeping her out of that situation.
speaking as a hiloni guy who lives in the actual America…… no – they have not heard of Fiddler on the Roof. They ==have== heard of female Israeli soldiers.
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